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Author Topic: ships.ini CV damege parameters discussion  (Read 2494 times)

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western0221

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ships.ini CV damege parameters discussion
« on: April 25, 2011, 04:16:05 PM »

In other hands, ship object reality is on discussion at here
http://www.sas1946.com/main/index.php/topic,15276.0.html

My point is a bit different.

Now in ships.ini, all CV's damage definitions are like here.
Code: [Select]
[USSEssexCV9:Part0]
BaseChunk Hull1
AdditionalCollisionChunk0  DeckN
strengthBasedOnThisSection strength_HullEnorm
Vital
 damageDepth   0.4
 damagePitch  -2.0
 damageRoll    6.0
 damageTime  164.0

[USSEssexCV9:Part1]
BaseChunk Hull2
AdditionalCollisionChunk0  DeckC
strengthBasedOnThisSection strength_HullEnorm
Vital
 damageDepth   0.4
 damagePitch   0.0
 damageRoll    6.0
 damageTime  160.0

[USSEssexCV9:Part2]
BaseChunk Hull3
AdditionalCollisionChunk0  DeckT
strengthBasedOnThisSection strength_HullEnorm
Vital
 damageDepth   0.4
 damagePitch   2.0
 damageRoll    6.0
 damageTime  166.0

DeckN's strength = Hull1's strength,
DeckC's strength = Hull2's strength, and
DeckT's strength = Hull3's strength.

These are realistic at only RN CVs "Illustrious-class" with armored strong flight deck.

All USN CV's and most IJN CV's(except Taiho and Shinano) had non-armored flight deck.
Thier deck was very weak. Only one 500lb. bomb hit, a big hole.
But USN/IJN CVs' Hulls are as same strong as RN's.
They absorbed attacks of three or four torpedos.

In example Midway, IJN Akagi/Kaga/Soryu were hit about four bombs on flight deck, and intense fire and explotion happend.
Fighting capability were completely lost soon.
But at last they had shunken after of a half day.
Akagi was culled by IJN's destroyer torpedo.
Such a strong hulls IJN CVs had.
So I think default "strength_HullEnorm" parameter isn't so bad, some realistic.

Then how is "separate" Hull's strength parameter from Deck's strength parameter.
I propose.
Like this
Code: [Select]
[USSEssexCV9:Part0]
BaseChunk Hull1
strengthBasedOnThisSection strength_HullEnorm
Vital
 damageDepth   0.4
 damagePitch  -2.0
 damageRoll    6.0
 damageTime  164.0

[USSEssexCV9:Part1]
BaseChunk Hull2
strengthBasedOnThisSection strength_HullEnorm
Vital
 damageDepth   0.4
 damagePitch   0.0
 damageRoll    6.0
 damageTime  160.0

[USSEssexCV9:Part2]
BaseChunk Hull3
strengthBasedOnThisSection strength_HullEnorm
Vital
 damageDepth   0.4
 damagePitch   2.0
 damageRoll    6.0
 damageTime  166.0

[USSEssexCV9:Part3]
BaseChunk DeckT
strengthBasedOnThisSection strength_HullLarge

[USSEssexCV9:Part4]
BaseChunk DeckC
strengthBasedOnThisSection strength_HullLarge

[USSEssexCV9:Part5]
BaseChunk DeckT
strengthBasedOnThisSection strength_HullLarge

A problem is...
Evenif many bombs hit deck and deck is broken, Hull is healthy and also engine, CV continues going ahead.
I wish that Hull healthy isn't bad, but its engine has to stop because of fire.
How to make it?

Tell me your opinions.
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razor1uk

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Re: ships.ini CV damege parameters discussion
« Reply #1 on: April 25, 2011, 06:49:01 PM »

Sounds reasonable enough. I don't know to anything about the coding, let alone enough about naval armour & structural layouts.
There was a huge thread in link to Battleship thread @ww2aircaft.net about operational (before mid 41') battleships differing armour types, methods, compositions and design that I did read all of it through last night, I know it isn't about Carriers, but some useful armour depictions, research and opinions. I don't know if this would help much, as you seem to know your vessels.

Anyhow, just wondering how deck damage might affect aircraft (spawning, TO & L), or would be for different visuals to be displayed?
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western0221

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Re: ships.ini CV damege parameters discussion
« Reply #2 on: April 30, 2011, 05:53:09 PM »

Battleships and Crusers have armor on deck as same as hull.
But many Carriers (except RN's Illutrious family and IJN Taiho,Shinano) have weak decks.

In USN, Lexington class has a bit strong deck.

Anyhow, just wondering how deck damage might affect aircraft (spawning, TO & L), or would be for different visuals to be displayed?

About affecting aircraft, I have no idea.
I have to experience what happen after parameter change.

Visuals is change now.
Ships have 2 skins. 1 is normal skin (skin1o.tga/tgb). Another is damaged skin (damage1o.tga) with explosion holes and burn.
When deck is damaged, IL-2 1946 shows damege1o.tga to us.
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razor1uk

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Re: ships.ini CV damege parameters discussion
« Reply #3 on: April 30, 2011, 06:15:27 PM »

Sounds good so far, good luck testing Western0221
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western0221

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Re: ships.ini CV damege parameters discussion
« Reply #4 on: May 04, 2011, 12:33:22 PM »

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Patchman123

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SAS~Malone

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Re: ships.ini CV damege parameters discussion
« Reply #6 on: September 26, 2011, 11:52:52 PM »

Patchman, can you at least give some indication as to the purpose of this link you've provided?
it's a bit senseless to just post up a link with no explanation whatsoever, in a thread that hasn't been posted in for 5 months....
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geppo68

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Re: ships.ini CV damege parameters discussion
« Reply #7 on: June 20, 2019, 03:04:04 PM »

Dear all,
I am sorry for resurrecting an old old topic, but I am trying to understand how the game models damage of the ships.
In particular I am interested in WWII Pacific battles, so you can guess the ships involved.
I am speaking of the damage on vital areas, not the "cosmetic" damage or the damage inflicted to ship guns.

It seems that the game in ships.ini considers only the 3 "Hull" section of the ship, for example the bow as below:

[IJNAkagiCV:Part0]
BaseChunk                 Hull1
AdditionalCollisionChunk0 DeckN
AdditionalCollisionChunk1 HullNOver
AdditionalCollisionChunk2 HullN01
AdditionalCollisionChunk3 HullN02
strengthBasedOnThisSection strength_HullEnorm
Vital
 damageDepth   0.4
 damagePitch  -2.0
 damageRoll    6.0
 damageTime  164.0


the only important part for the damage model "hit points" is the "strengthBasedOnThisSection" line...it seems that adding/ removing additional collision chunks or specifying a different strenght in a subsequent part for example for the "Deck N" does nothing to the survivability of the ship (even if I declare DeckN Invulnerable!)

I made quite  a few experiments and every ship that has
"Hull Enorm" dies after 4 torpedo or 7-8 500 lb bombs
"Hull Huge" dies after 2 torpedo or 6-7 500 lb bombs

essentially, If I define a ship as "Hull Enorm", they all have the same survival chances.
Given that every Battleship and every Aircraft Carrier CV seems to be defined as having "Hull Enorm", how can I differentiate between them, apart from the armament?
That is, a Kaga resistance should be different from an Illustrious class, an Arizona from a Yamato and so on...
moreover, a carrier CV without an armored deck should be weaker on aerial attacks than another with armored deck, but perhaps they have the same resistance against torpedo attacks if they both have an armored belt below waterline.

So my friends I ask you:
- have I understood well how the damage model works?
- is there a possibility to differentiate or to "armor" different sides of the ship eg deck vs hull?

thank you all!
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Squashman

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Re: ships.ini CV damege parameters discussion
« Reply #8 on: June 20, 2019, 05:39:11 PM »

Hi geppo

Open ships.ini file and near the top you will find the damage parameters for the various Hull strengths under "Hull Durability" section.
For example;
[strength_HullEnorm]
MinShotCaliber    0.203
NumShots          148
MinHitExplTNT     40
NumHitExpl        25
MinNearExplTNT    80
NumNearExpl       25

Roughly, this breaks down as:-

MinShotCaliber    - the minimum size of ordnance that will inflict damage
NumShots          - the number of shots any hull section can take before being destroyed
MinHitExplTNT     40 - minimum weight of explosive that will cause damage (kg?)
NumHitExpl        25 - number of above hits before ship sinks
MinNearExplTNT    80 - weight of explosive to cause near miss damage (kg?)
NumNearExpl       25 - number of near miss explosions to cause hull section to sink

Fairly self explanatory, but you can alter these values to make the ship more difficult to sink; for example
[strength_HullEnorm]
MinShotCaliber    0.203
NumShots          160//148
MinHitExplTNT     72//40
NumHitExpl        30//25
MinNearExplTNT    96//80
NumNearExpl       40//25

You really need to alter these values for realistic naval engagements, for example in the stock game the Yamato can be sunk by two torpedo hits!!

You can also designate individual  ships hull strengths by inserting unique designation into the [strength_Hullxxxx] for each ship hull section

For example, I have added Yamato Hull durability by entering these values in Hull Durabilty section
[strength_HullEnormYamato]
MinShotCaliber    0.203
NumShots          142
MinHitExplTNT     132
NumHitExpl        25
MinNearExplTNT    152
NumNearExpl       25

Then in Yamato ships data, change the three Hull parameters from [strength_HullEnorm] to [strength_HullEnormYamato] or make the words whatever you want, but it must match exactly.

With these settings it takes about fifteen Mk 13 torpedoes and about 20 1000lb bombs to sink the Yamato

Also, I recommend the Sink-Time parameter mod by Western, which extends the length of time it takes for ships to sink by up to 10x - (more realistic, as large ships often took hours to sink; eg the Japanese carriers at Midway all had to be scuttled by friendly torpedoes the next day before they would go down)


Hope this helps
regards
Mike

 


 


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Plowshare

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Re: ships.ini CV damege parameters discussion
« Reply #9 on: June 20, 2019, 06:10:21 PM »

Squashman snuck in his post as I was making this but I'll continue on anyway...

Years ago I wanted pretty much what you're wanting here except I was more interested in ships smaller than cruisers, battleships, and carriers - destroyers and smaller. I made several new "Hull Durability" inserts:


Code: [Select]
[strength_HullBang]     // Stock
MinShotCaliber    0.00762
NumShots          2
MinHitExplTNT     4
NumHitExpl        4
MinNearExplTNT    1
NumNearExpl       10

[strength_HullTiny]   // Stock
MinShotCaliber    0.00762
NumShots          80
MinHitExplTNT     4
NumHitExpl        4
MinNearExplTNT    5 //8
NumNearExpl       14

[strength_HullTinyPlus]
MinShotCaliber    0.0127
NumShots          60
MinHitExplTNT     4
NumHitExpl        5
MinNearExplTNT    10
NumNearExpl       15

[strength_HullTinyMagnum]
MinShotCaliber    0.0127
NumShots          175
MinHitExplTNT     4
NumHitExpl        6
MinNearExplTNT    14
NumNearExpl       16

[strength_HullSmallPuny]
MinShotCaliber    0.0127
NumShots          290
MinHitExplTNT     5
NumHitExpl        8
MinNearExplTNT    16
NumNearExpl       16.5

[strength_HullSmallMinus]
MinShotCaliber    0.0127
NumShots          400
MinHitExplTNT     5
NumHitExpl        8
MinNearExplTNT    20
NumNearExpl       17

[strength_HullSmall]    // Stock
MinShotCaliber    0.02
NumShots          84
MinHitExplTNT     6
NumHitExpl        10
MinNearExplTNT    15 //24
NumNearExpl       17.5

[strength_HullSmallPlus]
MinShotCaliber    0.02
NumShots          160
MinHitExplTNT     7
NumHitExpl        10
MinNearExplTNT    30
NumNearExpl       16

[strength_HullSmallMagnum]
MinShotCaliber    0.02
NumShots          200
MinHitExplTNT     8
NumHitExpl        10
MinNearExplTNT    39
NumNearExpl       17

[strength_HullMediumMinus]
MinShotCaliber    0.02
NumShots          300
MinHitExplTNT     9
NumHitExpl        10.5
MinNearExplTNT    32 //49
NumNearExpl       16

[strength_HullMedium]    // Stock
MinShotCaliber    0.037
NumShots          106
MinHitExplTNT     10
NumHitExpl        11.2
MinNearExplTNT    32 //49
NumNearExpl       16

My inserts are: [strength_HullTinyPlus]; [strength_HullTinyMagnum]; [strength_HullSmallPuny]; [strength_HullSmallMinus]; [strength_HullSmallPlus]; [strength_HullSmallMagnum]; [strength_HullMediumMinus]. The alterations I made facilitated strafing attacks and are based on information I was able to glean from accounts of strafing attacks and the damage done to vessels. Due to my interest in strafing I simply altered the MinShotCaliber and NumShots numbers.

What you'd want to do is experiment with the MinHitExplTNT; NumHitExpl; MinNearExplTNT; and NumNearExpl. Check what Squashman says.

Now, to implement this data look at the ship(s) you're interested in and insert the appropriate strength_Hullxxxxxx in the correct section of the ship at the end of the line, "strengthBasedOnThisSection" and the strength is altered.

A tip if I may; this works really well with non-combat ships but it can be used for any ship: Make one section of the hull more vulnerable than the others. I took the section of the hull in which the engine room would be and made it one or two Hull Durabilities less as if the ship would be disabled by an engine room fire. Unfortunately, the ship sinks but hey, there are all sorts of compromises in this game.

Good luck and let us know what you come up with.

Bob
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Squashman

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Re: ships.ini CV damege parameters discussion
« Reply #10 on: June 20, 2019, 07:07:49 PM »

Nice details Bob. I'll try some of your tips re. different Hull sections. Thanks  ;D

Mike
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geppo68

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Re: ships.ini CV damege parameters discussion
« Reply #11 on: June 21, 2019, 01:39:15 AM »

Thank you very much.
So for maximum detail you suggest to define a different "hit points durability" for each class of ships then subdivided in the 3 areas hull1 - hull2 -hull3.

Would it be possibile to further subdivide it between the different facings? I am thinking about an identical hull resistance but a different deck resistance to differentiate between a carrier with and without armored deck?
Thus both can be destroyed by the same number of torpedos but with a different number of bombs?

Thanks
Giuseppe
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