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Author Topic: Upgrading the Mosquito BIV  (Read 2451 times)

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Kopfdorfer

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Upgrading the Mosquito BIV
« on: May 10, 2012, 06:11:51 PM »

Inspired by the excellent work of Sputnik and friends on the Mossie NF Models...

If this has already been done , I apologize , and please point me to the upgrade.
I have mentioned this before , but have not had a positive response.
Being rather obstinate and focused I would like to again raise the matter of an upgrade to the interior cockpit of the
Mosquito Bomber versions.
I must thank the original modder ( I think it was Fly Zo) and friends for the great job of getting us into the Bomber Mossies at all.

Series I

B MkIV Series II

Series II Late

The Bomber Mosquitos had a different windscreen than the NF and FB models , and Bomber Mossies had a yoke rather than a "stick".

                                                   Mosquito Bomber Yoke
 


Looking at the external models in IL2 , the modelling is correct : the windscreen is split into 2 angled panels. If you go into the Interior of the BMk IV and the BMk XVI you will notice that they retain the FB flat windscreen in contrast to the exterior model.

                                                          Correct Bomber Two Panel Windscreen
                                                         

                                                          NF/FB Flat Windscreen
This is a great image of the MossieFBVI recently renovated in New Zealand - way to go Kiwiland!
                                                         




Navigator's position - note you can see through to the bombardier position - this is not so in the current BIV


View of Pilot's position from Navigator/Bombardier (prone?)


Looking Up - with a very wide angle lens !


Looking Backward


Overhead view


See the comparative diagram below ; though the bomber version is the BMkIX , I believe it is closer to the BMkIV than the cockpit we currently have. Further , the correct yoke is already in the BMKXVI Md , so importing it to the BIV should be relatively straight forward.

Another difference is the escape hatches.
The Bomber Series Mosquitos had the escape hatch underneath the cockpit, as here:

FighterBomber and NF Mossies had the escape hatch on the starboard fuselage side - tough for the pilot to bail out if the Nav was hit, as here:

and here:



Also , I believe it is time to give the Mosquito Bombardier a proper bombardier position , rather than simply snapping to view through a  (Russian) bombsight.
I do not know which type of bombsight is portrayed in the next photo (MkIXA CSBS?) - anyone who knows gets a Jerky Treat!




Additionally , there were two distinct production runs of the Mossie BIV...


Is there a bug lover out there to give the BMkIV a little attention?

Kopfdorfer
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Dakpilot

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Re: Upgrading the Mosquito BIV
« Reply #1 on: May 11, 2012, 03:03:52 AM »

Any upgrades to Mosquito's are always welcome  :) but first on the list is the FM (DBW 1.71 but i think everywhere) there is something very odd, it has Much less rudder authority than any other model, try it yourself, set one up on autopilt at 1000m trim it out to fly level then just put full rudder, no other inputs. There is hardly any effect of the rudder, try this same flight test with other models and they all have ( what i would think) correct rudder authority and will eventually end up in a "nosedive", the BMkIV takes ages to respond and only eventually will go into a nosedive.

If you just fly straight and level and boot rudder fully each way it barely twitches  :o with an almost identical airframe this is not right and makes the MkIV sluggish to fly and very unrewarding, so much so that I have given up using it in the number of campaigns that I was looking forward to.

Can some other Mossie fans have a test of this? I dont think it would be hard just to sort this issue out, with the various FM's fo diffeent marks I think to get correct flying characteristics and performance would be wthin easy reach of the clever people here  ;D (when they have time!)

Cheers Dakpilot
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Kopfdorfer

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Re: Upgrading the Mosquito BIV
« Reply #2 on: May 11, 2012, 08:23:45 AM »

Dak - I am delighted that you said it and not me!
I started to draft an entire "and don't forget the FM" component to this request, but decided that prudence would reward me in this case and stuck to the cockpit!

I too find the IL2 Mosquito FMs absolutely unrewarding and unsatisfying to fly , and I have read nothing in 35+ years that suggests this is remotely representative of their true performance.

                           

In fact I chatted with a Hudson/Anson pilot who stayed Canada side and flew AS Patrols for the entire war in the Atlantic provinces who remarked that many pilots who switched over to the Mosqitop suffered critical accidents and sometimes fatal crashes and unexplained disappearances over the Atlantic simply because the aircraft was "too hot for them to handle"!

I would argue that the IL2 Mossie FM is none of that!

For an aircraft that established a rep as one of the highest performing of the entire war (as per  both allied and enemy reports) , that managed to absorb tremendous damage due to unique structural capabilities , and succeeded not only in getting men back safely in what was in many variants an unarmed aircraft AND carried out the most diverse mission types of any (save possibly the Ju88)
aircraft of the entire war period , I have to think and feel that this FM has not been done justice.

From Wiki
"On 20 April 1941, W4050 was demonstrated to Lord Beaverbrook, the Minister of Aircraft Production. The Mosquito made a series of flights, , including one rolling climb on one engine."
Try to replicate this in IL2!

Also not yet considered as far as I know , is the incorporation of various technological developments (radar) to the BMkIV , nor the option of using it as a Pathfinder aircraft dropping marker flares ,
which it did. Also there were 2 distinct production versions of the BMkIV

The first operational sortie by a Mosquito was made by a PR Mk I, W4055, on 17 September 1941; during this sortie the unarmed Mosquito PR.I evaded three Messerschmitt Bf 109s at 23,000 feet (7,000 m).

Anyhow , any improvement would be welcome!

Kopfdorfer
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mojojojo

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Re: Upgrading the Mosquito BIV
« Reply #3 on: May 11, 2012, 08:44:38 AM »

yeah the mossies could use an upgrade. it's not just the rudder. the roll rate is also not as good as in RL.
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LV 426

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Re: Upgrading the Mosquito BIV
« Reply #4 on: May 11, 2012, 09:29:38 AM »

 totaly agreed, the mosquito FM in game seems to be "inappropriate". +1 for this request!
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Dakpilot

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Re: Upgrading the Mosquito BIV
« Reply #5 on: May 11, 2012, 12:02:32 PM »

Well I do agree that in general Mosquito's seem to under perform, but in comparison to the rest, the Mk IV is an absolute lazy dog and in its present form should not really be in UP or DBW other than AI as ME/FW fodder  :o

Perhaps in due time ( I think now all Flavours of Mossies are covered?) maybe a complete SAS Mosquito pack could be put together as has been done with many other great combo's here

In the meantime just a patch, to bring the MkIV handling up to the same standard of the others would be great  :)

Cheers Dakpilot
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Kopfdorfer

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Re: Upgrading the Mosquito BIV
« Reply #6 on: November 20, 2012, 12:48:16 PM »

Just a bump to query as to whether these thoughts are getting any attention out there.

                           

Some nice Skins (couldn't resist...sorry) ::)

Kopfdorfer
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Kopfdorfer

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Re: Upgrading the Mosquito BIV
« Reply #7 on: May 29, 2013, 08:09:18 AM »

Just to give this a little bump , and to say I added a note about the positioning of escape hatch differences between the NF/FBs (starboard fuselage) and the Bs ( fuselage under cockpit) in the first post of the thread.


Kopfdorfer
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Lanius

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Re: Upgrading the Mosquito BIV
« Reply #8 on: May 29, 2013, 09:23:33 AM »

The Mossie is one aircraft that just looks so right .....
It's a shame that Il-2 really lets the memory of this amazing machine down.  :-[
Lets hope one day she flies (within our virtual sky) in the true spirit of the multi role combat aircraft she was .  :)
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Kopfdorfer

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Re: Upgrading the Mosquito BIV
« Reply #9 on: June 04, 2013, 08:05:18 PM »

First , Let me say that I am really pleased that there are others interested in fleshing
out the state of this aircraft series that is truly one of a handful of the most
significant of WW2.
I agree with DakPilot - I would love to see a "Mosquito Mod Pack" some time in our future.
A lot of the steps have been taken.

Il2 1946         Mosquito BIV  ai only
                    Mosquito FBVI

WW2 Mossies available to date (as far as I know)

                 Mosquito NFII    SAS~GJE52
                 Mosquito BIV     stock , cockpit by Fly Zo
                 Mosquito FBVI    stock , various armament upgrades
                 Mosquito NFXII   Sputnik Shock and friends
                 Mosquito NFXIII  Sputnik Shock and Friends
                 Mosquito BXVI    AAA Mod Team + Tweaks by SAS~CirX
                 Mosquito FBXVII Tse Tse  ???
                 Mosquito NFXIX   Sputnik Shock and friends
                 Mosquito NF30    Doc Holiday

Representative Mossie Pack as I feel would cover most of the historical uses of this bird...

Mosquito FII Intruder  Merlin 21 or 23 No AI Radar , extra fuel , otherwise as NF MKII , short nacelle , fighter yoke
Mosquito NFII          In service early 1942 494 FIIs plus NFIIs built - Merlin 21 or 23 , as per SAS~GJE52 + AI Mk V Radar installation in cockpit , short nacelle , fighter yoke         
Mosquito BIV Series I  In service 15 Nov 1941  - Merlin 21  short nacelles , alternate exhaust , PR loadout ( x 29 refitted ) 
Mosquito BIV Series II(Early) In service late May 1942  - Merlin 21 or 23   263 Series II built    Mid war variant   Pretty much as in game , with bomber yoke, correct windscreen , correct hatch, add Pathfinder flare loadout , add VIP/Spy loadout , Cookie loadout (BIV "Special" 22 built 1944) 
Mosquito BIV Series II(Late)   263 Series II built     Late war variant  as Series II early , add Pathfinder loadout including flares , Oboe , H2S ,  Highball Anti-Shipping loadout ( 60 built)   , Low level MkIII bombsight   
Mosquito FBVI          In service May 1943   - Merlin 21 , 23 or 25   2,584 built   As in game , expand loadouts to contain 3" Rockets with 25lb AP , Incendiary rockets , Christmas tree rocket launch rails option , firebash napalm loads
Mosquito PRIX          In service April 1943 - Merlin 72 , 90 built    Modified nacelles ( chin intake , carb intake under nacelles , 6 exhaust ports rather than 5 ) , photoflash bombs , range 3,945 km
Mosquito NFXII         In service Feb 1943  -  Merlin 21 or 23  97 built from NFIIs   , As per Sputnik et al , short nacelles ???
Mosquito NFXIII        In service late 1943 - Merlin 21 or 23  260 built   from FBVI As per Sputnik et al
Mosquito BXVI          In service end 1943  - Merlin 72,73,76,77  ,402 built    add PR loadout , PR High Alt Loadout (432 PRXVIs built!)    As per AAA mod team 
Mosquito FBXVIII       In service Oct 24 , 1943  - Engine ?? 25 built   as per SAS~Howlin , TD
Mosquito NFXIX         In service late spring 1944 280 built   , As per Sputnik et al
Mosquito NF30          In service 13 June 1944  - Merlin 72 , 76 , 113  526 built  , As per Sputnik et al

Main features to streamline pack... 
all bomber/PR versions should have a "yoke" control column , front windscreen inside and out should have a 2 panel angled windscreen
and in cockpit view should look through to bomb aimers position. Escape hatch should be through the floor.
Bombsight as appropriate per variant ( NA to  PR loadouts), PR loadouts should include cameras visible from outside aircraft view.

all FB/NF variants should have a "stick" control column , front windscreen inside and out should have a single panel bulletproof front windscreen ,
in cocpit view should see any AI Radar installations for the Radar Operator. Escape hatch should be in the starboard nose fuselage.

FII , NFII , BIV Series I , NFXII should have short nacelles and alternate exhaust ports (?)

Anyone with more detailed or more accurate info appreciated.
If any modder/modding group has been omitted please forgive th eoversight and offer the correction/addition. My intent is to promote this idea , not to offend those who have brought us with the mossies we already have.

Sincerely ,

Kopfdorfer
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