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Author Topic: C.714 , another Bete Noire for Friday  (Read 16607 times)

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Kopfdorfer

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C.714 , another Bete Noire for Friday
« on: May 27, 2011, 01:26:16 PM »

This Aircraft is flying in IL2 :

https://www.sas1946.com/main/index.php/topic,26224.0.html


The pauvre Francais are by far the most underrepresented nationality of the major combatants of WW2 in IL2 with (to my knowledge) no French made aircraft other than the MS406 family represented (though some are being worked on), and despite my personal view that aircraft such as the LeO 451, the Potez 630 series and the ubuquitous Bloch MB152 warrant historical representation, I find this little fighter to be very interesting. I hope you do too.




The C.714 Cyclone was the final evolution of the 710 series, which was designed based on a successful pre-war racer, and first flew in April 1938 as the C.714.01 prototype. The primary changes from the C.713 were a new wing airfoil profile, a strengthened fuselage, and instead of two cannons, the fighter had four 7.5 mm MAC 1934 machine guns in the wing gondolas. It was powered by the newer 12R-03 version of the engine, which introduced a new carburettor that could operate in negative g.

                                     

The Armée de l'Air ordered 20 C.714s on 5 November 1938, with options for a further 180. Production started at a Renault factory in the Paris suburbs in summer 1939[2]
Other projected versions were the C.720 trainer with a 75 or 164 kW (100 or 220 hp) engine, the C.760 fighter with a 559 kW (750 hp) Isotta-Fraschini Delta engine, and the C.770 fighter with an 597 kW (800 hp) Renault V-engine. None of these reached production.

                                 
                                 

Deliveries did not start until January 1940. After a series of tests with the first production examples, it became apparent that the design was seriously flawed. Although light and fast, its wooden construction did not permit a more powerful engine to be fitted. The original engine seriously limited its climb rate and maneuverability with the result that the Caudron was withdrawn from active service in February 1940. In March, the initial production order was reduced to 90, as the performance was not considered good enough to warrant further production contracts. Eighty were diverted to Finland to fight in the Winter War. These were meant to be flown by French pilots. However, events in France resulted in only six aircraft being delivered, and an additional 10 were waiting in the harbour when deliveries were stopped. The six aircraft that arrived were assembled, tested and given registrations CA-551 to CA-556. The aircraft were found to be too unreliable and dangerous to use in Finnish conditions, and were not committed to combat. Further, the Finnish pilots found that it was difficult to start and land the aircraft from the air bases at the front. The Finnish CR.714 aircraft were permanently grounded on 10 September 1940, and taken out of service in 1941.

                       

On 18 May 1940, 35 Caudrons were delivered to the Polish Warsaw Squadron, the Groupe de Chasse polonais I/145, stationed at the Mions airfield. After just 23 sorties, adverse opinion of the fighter was confirmed by front line pilots who expressed concerns that it was seriously underpowered and was no match for contemporary German fighters.
On 25 May, only a week after it was introduced, French Minister of War Guy la Chambre ordered all C.714s to be withdrawn from active service. However, since the French authorities had no other aircraft to offer, the Polish pilots ignored the order and continued to fly the Caudrons. Despite flying a fighter hopelessly outdated compared to the Messerschmitt Bf 109E, the Polish pilots scored 12 confirmed and three unconfirmed victories in three battles between 8 June and 11 June, losing nine in the air and nine more on the ground. Interestingly, among the aircraft shot down were four Dornier Do 17 bombers, but also three Messerschmitt Bf 109 and five Messerschmitt Bf 110 fighters.
The Caudron fighter was also used by the Polish training squadron based in Bron near Lyon. Although the pilots managed to disperse several bombing raids, and although they did not score any kills, they did not lose any machines. By the end of June when France fell, only 53 production machines had been delivered (although the number varies, 98 is another common figure). Despite a larger number being diverted to Finland, only six Caudron C.714s were received in a semi-assembled state. An additional 10 were on the dockside at the time of France's Armistice with Germany, subsequently, further shipments were halted. After assembly, operations in Finland were limited to test flights and, in September 1941, combat flights with the fighters were prohibited. The aircraft were maintained on the roster until they were retired and scrapped on 30 December 1949. One example, CA-556 was transferred to the maintenance personnel school as an instructional airframe.

The office











General characteristics
·   Crew: One
·   Length: 8.63 m (28 ft 3? in)
·   Wingspan: 8.97 m (29 ft 5? in)
·   Height: 2.87 m (9 ft 5 in)
·   Wing area: 12.5 m² (135 ft²)
·   Empty weight: 1,395 kg (3,075 lb)
·   Loaded weight: 1,880 kg (4,145 lb)
·   Powerplant: 1× Renault 12R 03 inverted V-12 inline piston engine, 373 kW (500 hp)
Performance
·   Maximum speed: 460 km/h (249 kn, 286 mph) at 5,000 m (16,400 ft)
·   Range: 900 km (486 nmi, 559 mi)
·   Climb to 4,000 m: 9.66 min
Armament
·   4 × 7.5 mm MAC 1934 machine guns

Some paint jobs...












J'aime vraiment le Caudron Cyclone



Kopfdorfer




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HundertzehnGustav

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Re: C.714 , another Bete Noire for Friday
« Reply #1 on: May 27, 2011, 03:18:46 PM »

Hey there Kopf!

Good one, quality request and inspiration for the Weekend.
If you want to have a dig, go and take a look how the Polish Pilots fared with that Plane.
french French french... there were a bunch of Poles in there too, and you might find an interesting story or two, of a Pole and his Cauldron...

:)
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cgagan

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Re: C.714 , another Bete Noire for Friday
« Reply #2 on: May 27, 2011, 03:23:45 PM »

This is an interesting plane in all respects... A racer turned into a fighter; I remember someone had advanced with 3d modelling of the aircraft back in the old AAA days, but sadly, this must be another grand project long dead (if I recall correctly, the same modder was engaged in the japanese long distance bomber project, but that is now history, isn't it?)
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Dunois

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Re: C.714 , another Bete Noire for Friday
« Reply #3 on: May 28, 2011, 12:00:18 AM »

Exactly! Remember having seen in AAA this project, also Bloch MB 152, and here Breguet 693 and Dewoitine D 520, this last one being the most advanced.
AAA projects seemed to have faded away, and here there is also no news about the others two projects...
Hope the announcement of the battle of France map following Westfront 44, will enhance the modders interest on French, Dutch, AC. This domain is still unnexplicably forgotten by the official game patches, and by the modders community (except Fokker G1), may be a lack of interest in this period?
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SAS~Malone

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Re: C.714 , another Bete Noire for Friday
« Reply #4 on: May 28, 2011, 12:05:57 AM »

nice request!  8)
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Jjuurraa

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Re: C.714 , another Bete Noire for Friday
« Reply #5 on: December 08, 2011, 01:42:43 PM »

I think nice request :) . I love Sitzkrieg und Fall Gelb.... I hope, one day, I will see in game this aero together with another french planes together with belgian Hurricanes and Foxes ...




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singüe

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Re: C.714 , another Bete Noire for Friday
« Reply #6 on: December 09, 2011, 04:31:32 AM »

Perhaps it was not a good fighter, but is a very nice machine.
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juanmalapuente

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Re: C.714 , another Bete Noire for Friday
« Reply #7 on: December 09, 2011, 02:17:49 PM »

Very beautiful and original fighter.
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=JFC=PhilHL

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Re: C.714 , another Bete Noire for Friday
« Reply #8 on: June 08, 2012, 06:06:50 AM »

I built this for il2 but its still not fine tuned! (FM!) I couldnt find someone until now to help me with the fm. Difficult is that I dont have any performance charts of this plane... so its all guessing what i did.



or the one with better engine, non wood construction and 6 machine guns:



If you want I can release them here as alpha version?!

cheers
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ANDYTOTHED

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Re: C.714 , another Bete Noire for Friday
« Reply #9 on: June 08, 2012, 06:14:59 AM »

damn funking right you can!
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S.H.

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Re: C.714 , another Bete Noire for Friday
« Reply #10 on: June 08, 2012, 06:18:55 AM »

Wow!
Thanks for your work on this forgotten plane. I'm sure someone will eventually help you here.
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=JFC=PhilHL

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Re: C.714 , another Bete Noire for Friday
« Reply #11 on: June 08, 2012, 06:24:55 AM »

give me a few days and i will check if the classes still working with latest sas version of the game. hopefully not much changed ;)
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