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Author Topic: P-51 guncam on a Do-335A-0 Arrow  (Read 802 times)

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SAS~Le0ne

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P-51 guncam on a Do-335A-0 Arrow
« on: October 31, 2011, 02:34:22 PM »

I did not think th DO-335 was in action but here I se one in the sight of an P-51
http://www.youtube.com/user/RebelandSon#p/u/0/v3TbVGolb9Q
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SAS~BravoFxTrt

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Re: P-51 guncam on a Do-335A-0 Arrow
« Reply #1 on: November 01, 2011, 12:54:22 AM »

Thanks for posting LeOne , I enjoyed watching and listening. :)
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Phas3e

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Re: P-51 guncam on a Do-335A-0 Arrow
« Reply #2 on: November 01, 2011, 01:19:54 AM »

interesting I had only got to video 2 from this series so damn you for making me skip ahead!

I posted this over at LEMB so maybe we can get an ID on the Arrow as I wasnt aware of any being shot down.
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Thunda

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Re: P-51 guncam on a Do-335A-0 Arrow
« Reply #3 on: November 01, 2011, 05:30:58 AM »

Didnt seem to be shooting at it- or not getting any hits anyway. Perhaps he was filming it for intel purposes before shooting it down? Im suprised it (the Do-335) couldnt leave the P51 standing, and it didnt seem to be taking any evasive action- strange! Very interesting video- thanks for posting. ;)
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SAS~Le0ne

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Re: P-51 guncam on a Do-335A-0 Arrow
« Reply #4 on: November 01, 2011, 07:52:55 AM »

Oh that could explain it thank u mate
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Pursuivant

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Re: P-51 guncam on a Do-335A-0 Arrow
« Reply #5 on: November 01, 2011, 10:38:27 AM »

I highly suspect this is not war (or combat) footage but post-war footage... ie a captured Do-335 being flown by allied pilot with an escort. US did capture a double seater Do-335 and only 2 trainers were ever completed

That's my guess too. Remember, it was possible to turn on the gun camera without firing the guns.
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Phas3e

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Re: P-51 guncam on a Do-335A-0 Arrow
« Reply #6 on: November 01, 2011, 10:39:15 AM »

Yup one was transferred to Neubiberg, the base use by the 357th before going to Cherburg

Quote
The airplane was flown several times, and the story goes that it was flown once by Capt. Robert D. Brown in a dogfight with 357th ace Major Don Bochkay. The big Dornier was very fast, but not as agile as the P-51.

   The identity of the German pilot is unknown, but another 357th pilot, Lt. Mike Becraft, got to know him quite well and remembers his name as Hofmann (Hoffmann?). There was a Ludwig "Willi" Hofmann involved in ferrying Me-262s to a French port [Webmaster's Note: the port was Cherbourg; as part of Operation Seahorse, two of the surviving single-seat Do335s were put aboard the U.S. aircraft carrier Reaper there and shipped back to the United States for detailed evaluation by the U.S. Navy] earlier in the Summer of 1945, and this may well be the same man. Becraft traded pilot's wings with him and still has the Luftwaffe badge. Dornier 335A-12, No. 112, was transferred to the RAF, departing Neubiberg on 7 September 1945 with a Squadron Leader McCarthy ferrying the aircraft to Britain. It met its end on 18 January 1946 when a fire developed in the rear engine, which destroyed the elevator controls. Group Captain Alan Hards was killed in the ensuing crash.

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Stratodog

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Re: P-51 guncam on a Do-335A-0 Arrow
« Reply #7 on: November 01, 2011, 11:09:16 AM »

Great observations guys.  And a nice find. 

To argue the 'real combat' scenario;  Notice the little tab that is on the left side of the guncam film?  When that tab goes away it's because the trigger has been pulled to fire the guns.  So, who ever was shooting this film was pulling the trigger on the stick.  Was he doing that just to run the camera? or was he shooting?  The rhythm of the "shooting" indicates to me that he was trying to use his guns.  I couldn't see any tracers, however, many pilots did not use tracers, especially after the advent of the K-14 gunsight.  Also, at the last frame or two of the film, I think I can see an API strike or two on the wings.   
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sphynx65

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Re: P-51 guncam on a Do-335A-0 Arrow
« Reply #8 on: November 01, 2011, 12:19:47 PM »

I think too it's a post war film
Closterman tell in "Le Grand Cirque" the encounter of Do335 seigle seat with his Tempest and cannot intercept it
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Phas3e

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Re: P-51 guncam on a Do-335A-0 Arrow
« Reply #9 on: November 01, 2011, 12:29:20 PM »

Closterman its been argued was full of shit about alot of his stories
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Knochenlutscher

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Re: P-51 guncam on a Do-335A-0 Arrow
« Reply #10 on: November 01, 2011, 01:14:26 PM »

Can't watch the vid in my country, due to copyright issues
BTW.
The only succesfull accident/loss in a combat situation happened when a Testpilot was misled by compass-failure on a transit flight, as I remember to Rechlin Lärz and caught by surprise while flying low.
That was the only one confirmed Do 335 getting shot down by escorting US Fighters, P-51.
V4: CP+UD (230 004) shot down near Bonefeld/Westerwald, Pilot: Fw. Alfred Wollank, 24.12.1944
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Pursuivant

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Re: P-51 guncam on a Do-335A-0 Arrow
« Reply #11 on: November 02, 2011, 12:57:59 AM »

To argue the 'real combat' scenario;  Notice the little tab that is on the left side of the guncam film?  When that tab goes away it's because the trigger has been pulled to fire the guns.  So, who ever was shooting this film was pulling the trigger on the stick.  Was he doing that just to run the camera? or was he shooting?  The rhythm of the "shooting" indicates to me that he was trying to use his guns.  I couldn't see any tracers, however, many pilots did not use tracers, especially after the advent of the K-14 gunsight.  Also, at the last frame or two of the film, I think I can see an API strike or two on the wings.   

You'd think that as close as the Do-335 is to the plane's guns, you'd see a lot more strikes, plus the usual smoke, sparks, minor explosions and chunks flying off. The attacking plane has a nearly perfect firing solution and should be shredding the Do-335's engine.

I still say it's a bored escort fighter pilot, flying with empty guns after the war was over, playing around with the guy he was escorting. The pattern of "gunfire" (thanks for pointing that out Stratodog) would make perfect sense for a combat vet dry firing his guns.

Alternatively, it could be a pilot who was out of ammo/had jammed guns, but decided to take pictures anyway for the S-2 guys. (Meanwhile beating on the cockpit combing and cursing fate for denying him a very unusual and easy kill.)
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