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Author Topic: DBW AI Mod Discussion & Bugs  (Read 23811 times)

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SAS~Anto

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Re: DBW AI Mod Discussion & Bugs
« Reply #36 on: August 19, 2011, 11:01:58 AM »

Guys, this mod is very much WIP and was only included as a taster. I need to fix quite a few more bugs on it. Here is a quick few answers to your questions:
- Majority of above have been fixed
- Bomb drop bug at 1/2 speed etc will be addressed this weekend
- As for formation, for whatever reason whenever we touch the Formations class in 4.101m, the game crashes. Nothing we can do to resolve this. May look at it again tomorrow
- AI Routines are currently taken from Cert's AI mod (latest version). I'll look at those bomber attack patterns again and see if something has changed
- Many of the AI routines are being revised by JG53_Valantine, an old friend of mine in the Il-2 community. Hopefully we will do some testing in the next week. Until then, we won't be taking requests with new routines, as we will get flooded with theme.

For now I'm going to close this thread and when a new version is ready for public testing, I will unlock it. Have a shortlist of things that need doing and once they are taken care of, I'm happy to see discussion continue. For now, we need to focus on this and we really can't take requests. Thanks for all your support and feedback.
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mati140

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Re: IL2 1956 - The Jet Era, Version 1.1 (08/05/11)
« Reply #37 on: August 26, 2011, 09:51:40 AM »

If you are running DBW with the AI mod activated, then the carrier beacons will work.

Any chance to have them working without AI mod? I don't use it bc, well, It's still far away from perfect. With current version there are issues with some AI actions that are essential for me (e.g. ground attacks) but I would still like to use these beacons...

EDIT: Strange, with AI mod enebled game crashes o desktop after a while when YE beacon is selected.

Also any chance to have realistic navigation support for Jet Era aircraft?
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SAS~Anto

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Re: Re: IL2 1956 - The Jet Era, Version 1.1 (08/05/11)
« Reply #38 on: August 26, 2011, 10:36:04 AM »

Realistic navigation already implemented for the Sabres. It isn't possible to get the carrier beacons working without the AI mod. Unfortunately you need to edit a core game classfile each time you want to have a new aircraft type using it.

Now as for issue with AI actions, please explain. We can't fix them if we don't know about them. I did close off the AI discussion thread, so I will reopen it. The only change to ground attacks was that CY6's ground attack mod was added, that's it. The version included in DBW 1.6 fixes the issue with AI freezing when bombs are dropped at 1/2 and 1/4 speed.
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SAS~Anto

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Re: DBW AI Mod Discussion & Bugs
« Reply #39 on: August 26, 2011, 10:37:08 AM »

Okay thread reopened. There is a new version of the AI mod in DBW 1.6. It fixes all the issues previously mentioned. Please report back if any new bugs have appeared.
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mati140

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Re: Re: IL2 1956 - The Jet Era, Version 1.1 (08/05/11)
« Reply #40 on: August 26, 2011, 12:37:57 PM »

Realistic navigation already implemented for the Sabres. It isn't possible to get the carrier beacons working without the AI mod. Unfortunately you need to edit a core game classfile each time you want to have a new aircraft type using it.

Now as for issue with AI actions, please explain. We can't fix them if we don't know about them. I did close off the AI discussion thread, so I will reopen it. The only change to ground attacks was that CY6's ground attack mod was added, that's it. The version included in DBW 1.6 fixes the issue with AI freezing when bombs are dropped at 1/2 and 1/4 speed.

Roger, gonna give it a try once I DL it.

I'll give an example of strange AI actions now:

4 F-9F2 attack enemy field artilery, Flight Test map, flat terrain, Ai at average, no AAA, loadaut: 4x500 bombs. gattack waypoint: altitude 500, speed 500
First approach to target: NP, they droped one pair of bombs, at the target.
Second approach: Flight leader... made barell roll togeather with dropping bombs and crashed... others made it.
Third approach: Here starts the horror. 3 remaining planes came in for strafing. Numbers 2 and 3 approached the target from above, then dived at them. As a result they went at too big angle, started shooting too late and crashed when trying to pull up. I noticed that they approached at one target (they were close to each other) but in last second they switched to the other one - this may be a reason. The 4th one menaged to pull up (but it was close) and he destroyed the target.
Fourth approach: the remaining plane aproached the target, but suddenly it made a barell roll and crashed in the ground....

Same mission, but this time with Ju-87R-2 and 1xSC250 + 4xSC50 loadaut. Altitude 500, generally low level run with dive bombers, they should drop all bombs and gtho...
...but each of them drops ONE bomb and makes another approach...
While this is rather feature then bug for fighter-bombers/attack planes, especialy if we're using C&C v2 and aimpoint object, but it doesn't work with dive bombers. For a reason. For dive bombers making low level attacks it doesn't make sense, bc they should rather act like level bombers then. Gonna ask CY6 for adding dive bomber support to his object though.

Another issues:
Game crashes when YG beacon is selected and sound is about to be played.
Tail light is white again.
Jets soemtimes approach too fast and crash on touchdown when landing on carrier. This, however, isn't so bad idea. It would be nice if AI planes randomly crashed and made Control stop giving permissions to land for a while, when they had low skill (rookie, maybe average) and/or wheather was bad.
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SAS~Anto

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Re: Re: IL2 1956 - The Jet Era, Version 1.1 (08/05/11)
« Reply #41 on: August 26, 2011, 10:08:32 PM »

Okay I'll try break this down as best I can.
4 F-9F2 attack enemy field artilery, Flight Test map, flat terrain, Ai at average, no AAA, loadaut: 4x500 bombs. gattack waypoint: altitude 500, speed 500
First approach to target: NP, they droped one pair of bombs, at the target.
Second approach: Flight leader... made barell roll togeather with dropping bombs and crashed... others made it.
Third approach: Here starts the horror. 3 remaining planes came in for strafing. Numbers 2 and 3 approached the target from above, then dived at them. As a result they went at too big angle, started shooting too late and crashed when trying to pull up. I noticed that they approached at one target (they were close to each other) but in last second they switched to the other one - this may be a reason. The 4th one menaged to pull up (but it was close) and he destroyed the target.
Fourth approach: the remaining plane aproached the target, but suddenly it made a barell roll and crashed in the ground....

Same mission, but this time with Ju-87R-2 and 1xSC250 + 4xSC50 loadaut. Altitude 500, generally low level run with dive bombers, they should drop all bombs and gtho...
...but each of them drops ONE bomb and makes another approach...
While this is rather feature then bug for fighter-bombers/attack planes, especialy if we're using C&C v2 and aimpoint object, but it doesn't work with dive bombers. For a reason. For dive bombers making low level attacks it doesn't make sense, bc they should rather act like level bombers then. Gonna ask CY6 for adding dive bomber support to his object though.


Jet aircraft have always had issues with ground attack. This existed before the Ground Attack mod. JG53_Valantine has done a fair amount of work on AI routines for WW2 aircraft and once he is done, I'm going to ask for his help with fine tuning the jet behaviour. This is a solvable problem ;)

For the Dive Bombers, well I'm not surprised they are doing that. The new ground attack code makes ground attack aircraft drop bombs one at a time, allowing to make multiple passes (As if they were operating in a cab-rank system). Dive bombers below a certain altitude automatically divert to this behaviour. Why should they act like level bombers? They don't have a level bomb site and have seen videos/pictures of Stukas attacking in shallow dives anyway.  So personally I see no problem with it.

The ONLY issue I have with the new pattern is the amount of bombs released. Especially for jets, you don't tend to make multiple passes but instead dump all your load and get the hell out of there. It is only for those close air support aircraft in cab rank systems where you would see multiple attack passes OR in situations where you have air superiority OR attacking a poorly defended target. So there is some fine tuning that can be done.

Quote
Another issues:
Game crashes when YG beacon is selected and sound is about to be played.

Haven't experienced this but I'll test this out

Quote
Tail light is white again.

Again? Wasn't it always white?

Quote
Jets soemtimes approach too fast and crash on touchdown when landing on carrier. This, however, isn't so bad idea. It would be nice if AI planes randomly crashed and made Control stop giving permissions to land for a while, when they had low skill (rookie, maybe average) and/or wheather was bad.

I've noticed this only on the rare occasion. It generally happens if the carrier changes heading whilst an aircraft is on final. To help with touchdown speed, most aircraft have some code that forces the AI to deploy airbrakes if they are outside the safe range for deploying full flaps (which then brings them into the safe speed zone to land).
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Far77

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Re: DBW AI Mod Discussion & Bugs
« Reply #42 on: August 26, 2011, 10:38:34 PM »

Okay thread reopened. There is a new version of the AI mod in DBW 1.6. It fixes all the issues previously mentioned. Please report back if any new bugs have appeared.

Thank you Anto for improving the AI.
Some shortcomings of the current AI(DBW 1.6, AImod is turned on in Jsgme, QMB, aces). I tested a mix (jets+pistons(fighters)_against_pistons (fighters))

1)Mine (but piloted by AI) F-86K sometimes collides with the ground.
2)Jets still often go into manuevering dogfighting with pistons.

I guess how difficult is to program and tune AI.

So maybe to try to test some simple logic into jet-AI:
1) While fighting a jet try to maintain speed no less than ~600kph (exact number could be found out in testing) with one exception below.
2) While attacking enemy plane without defensive armament which RTBing and there are no more enemy plane "in sight" then a jet could slow down.









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SAS~Anto

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Re: DBW AI Mod Discussion & Bugs
« Reply #43 on: August 27, 2011, 03:49:45 AM »

1)Mine (but piloted by AI) F-86K sometimes collides with the ground.

We need some specifics. When does it collide with ground? What situation are you in. AI collide with the ground all the time.

2)Jets still often go into manuevering dogfighting with pistons.

We didn't touch that part of the code. Not sure how to approach this as there were circumstances during Korea and possible during the Malaysian-Indonesian conflicts where these situations occurred. Overall the jet AI code does need a major fix and it will get it, once Val's finished his tuning of the WW2 aircraft first. There are a lot of things we have in mind and are possible, but all in good time.
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Far77

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Re: DBW AI Mod Discussion & Bugs
« Reply #44 on: August 27, 2011, 04:10:16 AM »

1)Mine (but piloted by AI) F-86K sometimes collides with the ground.

We need some specifics. When does it collide with ground? What situation are you in. AI collide with the ground all the time.


While dogfightning with pistons a H~1-3km. I missed the exact moments as I watched other planes at the moments. But as it was "no-damage", so the reason could be neither shooting down nor
collision with another plane.
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mati140

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Re: Re: IL2 1956 - The Jet Era, Version 1.1 (08/05/11)
« Reply #45 on: August 27, 2011, 05:43:04 AM »

Okay I'll try break this down as best I can.

Jet aircraft have always had issues with ground attack. This existed before the Ground Attack mod. JG53_Valantine has done a fair amount of work on AI routines for WW2 aircraft and once he is done, I'm going to ask for his help with fine tuning the jet behaviour. This is a solvable problem ;)

For the Dive Bombers, well I'm not surprised they are doing that. The new ground attack code makes ground attack aircraft drop bombs one at a time, allowing to make multiple passes (As if they were operating in a cab-rank system). Dive bombers below a certain altitude automatically divert to this behaviour. Why should they act like level bombers? They don't have a level bomb site and have seen videos/pictures of Stukas attacking in shallow dives anyway.  So personally I see no problem with it.

The ONLY issue I have with the new pattern is the amount of bombs released. Especially for jets, you don't tend to make multiple passes but instead dump all your load and get the hell out of there. It is only for those close air support aircraft in cab rank systems where you would see multiple attack passes OR in situations where you have air superiority OR attacking a poorly defended target. So there is some fine tuning that can be done.

Yea, but with it they go even more crazy. There were single crashes when Panthers attacked targets but never whole wings crashing.

Since CY6 released C&C 2.0 it isn't a problem for jets as you can use Aimpoint object instead of gattack waypoint to make them drop all at once (Hope that this new version will make it to DBW). However it doesn't work for dive bombers. And yes, there's no problem with the way they approach the target, but if Stuka drops ONE SC50 by pass it doesn't make sense at all. I simply mean that dive bombers should drop all bombs at once.

Haven't experienced this but I'll test this out

To prevent questions: No, it's not related to C&C v2, I checked.

Again? Wasn't it always white?

Oh dear, I mean GREEN, sorry for the mistake. Without AI mod it's white and flashing, with it it's green.

I've noticed this only on the rare occasion. It generally happens if the carrier changes heading whilst an aircraft is on final. To help with touchdown speed, most aircraft have some code that forces the AI to deploy airbrakes if they are outside the safe range for deploying full flaps (which then brings them into the safe speed zone to land).

Carrier was going straight, with speed of 30 kph, no wind, landing aircraft: 4xF-9F2

No matter how the misison went, one of the aircraft always crashed into carrier's deck when landing (and it was always #3 IIRC).

EDIT: OK, seems that swithcing carriers speed to the maximum of 56 kph fixed the problem. So it's rather a matter of careful mission building.

EDIT2: Game crashes whatever beacon I use. Without AI mod there's no problem.
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SAS~Anto

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Re: DBW AI Mod Discussion & Bugs
« Reply #46 on: August 27, 2011, 11:49:18 PM »

While dogfightning with pistons a H~1-3km. I missed the exact moments as I watched other planes at the moments. But as it was "no-damage", so the reason could be neither shooting down nor
collision with another plane.

So it was a once off occurence? Manoeuvre kills are fairly common in IL-2 as it is BUT a jet engaging a piston aircraft in a turning fight is likely to guarantee it ;)
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CWMV

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Re: DBW AI Mod Discussion & Bugs
« Reply #47 on: August 27, 2011, 11:55:54 PM »

Still seeing spits and Hurri's using flaps during dogfights.
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