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Author Topic: New Medals for Soviet. (request for some help)  (Read 716 times)

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Flanker1985

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New Medals for Soviet. (request for some help)
« on: June 15, 2011, 06:51:42 PM »

Hi, Guys. I don't know if you guys feel the same way. But when we play the Soviet Campaign we always get a few medal twice or even 3 times. So we decide to put new medals in so we wouldn't get the same medal twice. But the thing is that we lost our progrem to convert image into the tga files. Plus I have no idea how to make that brown fabric thing which is under every medal. So we decide to share our medal images here and hope if anyone feels the same way can give us a bit help. Thanks in advance and sorry for my poor English.


This is "the Order Of The Red Banner Of Labour"


The Order Of The October Revolution


The Order of Lenin


The Order of Red Banner


The Order of the Red Star

I know the last 3 medals are in the game, but my pictures are clearer than the ones in game.
 :)

Thanks again for any help.
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MURD0C

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JG54Spookie

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Re: New Medals for Soviet. (request for some help)
« Reply #2 on: June 16, 2011, 04:23:15 AM »

This brings back memories! About 5 or 6 years ago, I wanted a new Russian award system for the DGEN campaigns. So, I made new TGAs and a new award list for the Russian campaigns.
 *Read this next part carefully* I wanted a linear progression of awards like in the other countries' campaigns instead of winning the "Hero" award multiple times. However, editing the award list file didn't work. The game still used the old names and multiple "Hero" system. I talked to some guys on the Ubi forum about it and was told to edit the awardclass file from red to blue, but it still didn't work. (here's a link to one of the threads about that issue: http://forums.ubi.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/50910533/m/4801028973/p/1) Their solution works for created campaigns, but apparently not the stock DGEN ones. That was at least five years ago, and I don't think anyone ever figured it out. So, my solution was to just work with what I had. I changed a medal or two, but basically just new pictures for the existing ones. Here's what I settled on:



If I were to actually make it into a finished pack, I think I'd just stick to using the stock medal list. After all, being named Hero of the Soviet Union three times is historically accurate.

I also made new medals for the Netherlands, Finland, France, Germany, Hungary, Japan, the Royal Navy, and the US Navy (as well as started on several other countries). I never uploaded them, but if people are interested, I could update them and post them for download somewhere. Here's some samples:














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SAS~Le0ne

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Re: New Medals for Soviet. (request for some help)
« Reply #3 on: June 16, 2011, 09:10:26 AM »

This is great, and what an idea. I was settled with the way things where, but not anymore go go go.  ;D
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JG54Spookie

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Re: New Medals for Soviet. (request for some help)
« Reply #4 on: June 16, 2011, 03:53:26 PM »

Give me a couple days to update some of the graphics graphics and make sure all the awards work correctly, and I'll upload them this weekend. If I were to start a new thread for this, which board would it go in? The skinshop or the visuals board??
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Kirill

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Re: New Medals for Soviet. (request for some help)
« Reply #5 on: June 16, 2011, 05:52:11 PM »

"the Order Of The Red Banner Of Labour" is not awarded for military merit.
Only for labor merit.
"The Order Of The October Revolution" Established October 31, 1967.
Order "Winning" is awarded  face higher command of the Red Army.
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Pursuivant

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Re: New Medals for Soviet. (request for some help)
« Reply #6 on: June 16, 2011, 09:29:17 PM »

I also made new medals for the Netherlands, Finland, France, Germany, Hungary, Japan, the Royal Navy, and the US Navy (as well as started on several other countries).

Very pretty work, but there are some minor errors in your medal packs.

U.S.

1) The Bronze Star was never awarded for aerial actions, the equivalent medal would be the Distinguished Flying Cross.

2) Whether intentional or not, you're mingling USAAF/USA and USN/USMC decorations. Note that after 1947, the USAAF had its own decorations, but during WW2, the USAAF would have used US Army decorations.

3) Each service has its own version of the Medal of Honor. Your pack shows just the USN/USMC version.

4) Many decorations were only instituted in 1942, so a pre-WW2 U.S. medal package would be much different.

5) While it's outside the scope of your medal packs, and is just a limitation of the IL2 game engine, the U.S. didn't have a neat sequential series of medals like the Third Reich did. Instead, each military action was judged on its own merits, with unit commanders making the recommendation for a particular decoration. Lower level decorations could be given by divisional commanders, while the decision to award a higher level decoration was made by corps or army commanders. In many cases, a pilot could get multiple decorations for the same action, as his decorations were "upgraded" after review by progressively senior commanders. In many cases, recognition with the highest level decorations came years, sometimes decades after the fact.

6) Multiple awards of the same decoration were marked with a small bronze oak-leaf cluster attached to the ribbon, in the USA/USAAF, or a small silver star attached to the ribbon for the USMC/USN.

7) By 1944, at least within the USAAF in the ETO/MTO, it was standard procedure to award the Air Medal for each kill or each 25 combat missions. I believe that it was standard practice to award the Distinguished Flying Cross for each successful combat tour (25-100 missions, depending on time period). I can't recall what the procedure was for the USMC, USN or USAAF in the PTO.

8 ) The award of the Medal of Honor was extremely unusual, and wasn't given to all pilots, even leading aces. Often, it was only awarded after a pilot had died (e.g., Thomas McGuire) or was believed to have died (e.g., Greg Boyington). Also, criteria for the MoH changed over the course of the war. For example, Butch O'Hare got the MoH for shooting down 5 (actually 3) Japanese bombers in 1942. By 1944, a similar feat might just merit a Silver Star or even the DFC. Realistically, a successful fighter pilot might have multiple air medals, a couple of DFC, a Silver Star and possibly the Navy Cross or Distinguished Service Cross.

Japan
1) Some of the decorations you've listed were only given to generals, admirals and senior military officials.

2) The type of decoration awarded depended on the recipients rank. Enlisted men and NCOs got decorations of a lower "grade" than those given to officers. For example, an NCO might be recommended for The Order of the Kite, 7th class, while an officer might get The Order of the Kite, 4th class.

3) Rather than getting a decoration of a different type, a second award might just upgrade an existing decoration to a higher grade, (e.g., Order of the Kite 7th class gets upgraded to Order of the Kite 6th class).

4) During WW2, actual decorations were only given posthumously, sometimes with an automatic posthumous promotion to the next highest rank. Due to rather callous policies by the military authorities, even exceptional pilots never received awards while still alive, even if they were repeatedly recommended for a decoration.

5) In order to try to keep up morale, squadron commanders would publicly recommend exceptional pilots for decorations that everyone knew would never be awarded. while squadron comrades would give gifts to recognize a pilot's prowess, such as a sake cup or a high-quality katana.

6) The exception to the above is that starting in December 1944, divisional commanders could give a decoration called "Bukoushou" to subordinates who showed exceptional valor. This award was often given to pilots flying in defense of the Japanese home islands who shot down one or more B-29s. More information here: http://www.imperialjapanmedalsandbadges.com/militaryservice.html

7) Lots of good information on Japanese decorations here: http://www.imperialjapanmedalsandbadges.com/sitemap.html

UK

1) Like Japan, the UK had one set of decorations for enlisted men and NCOs and another set for officers. This didn't change until 1993.

2) Like the U.S., some decorations varied by service or situation. For example, there was one version of the Conspicuous Gallantry Medal for aerial actions, another for other actions.

3) Like the U.S., it was more common to get a subsequent award of the same decoration rather than a higher ranked medal. Subsequent decorations of the same decoration were marked with a bar.

4) The lowest level British decoration would be "Mention in Dispatches." There is no medal for this award, just a bronze palm leaf.

5) The UK added some decorations during WW2, notably the George Medal. I'm not sure what exact;y what context merited the award of the George Medal vs. the Victoria Cross. Generally, though, military action got the Victoria Cross.

6) It was extremely unusual for a living pilot (actually, just about any pilot) to win the Victoria Cross. Top fighter pilots might have the Distinguished Flying Cross with two bars and the Distinguished Service Cross with bar. (e.g., "Johnny" Johnson). Awards of the Victoria Cross generally went to leaders of extremely successful missions which altered the course of the war (e.g., Guy Gibson for the Dambusters raid) or suicidal acts of bravery.

Third Reich
1) The requirements to earn various grades of Iron Cross increased during the war as leading aces racked up surreal scores over the Eastern Front. Likewise, to accommodate "decoration inflation" Hitler created new levels of Knights Cross of the Iron Cross as the war went on.

2) The Order of the German Cross actually came in 3 levels - silver, gold and gold with diamonds - although functionally there were just two levels of Order of the German Cross - silver and gold - since the gold with diamonds version was never given.

3) The correct order of decorations for 1939 should be Iron Cross, 2nd class; Iron Cross, 1st class; Order of the German Cross in Silver; Order of the German Cross in Gold and Knights Cross of the Iron Cross. In 1940, add the Knights Cross of the Iron Cross with Oak Leaves. In 1941, add the Knights Cross of the Iron Cross with Oak Leaves and Swords and Knights Cross of the Iron Cross with Swords, Oak Leaves and Diamonds. In late 1944, add the Knights Cross of the Iron Cross with Gold Swords, Oak Leaves and Diamonds.

4) In some cases, a pilot's comrades would give him an unofficial award of a silver cup (a "pokal") to commemorate a victory. I believe this was a holdover from Manfred von Richtoften's habit during WWI of commissioning engraved pokals for himself to commemorate his kills. This could serve as the lowest level Nazi award.
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JG54Spookie

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Re: New Medals for Soviet. (request for some help)
« Reply #7 on: June 16, 2011, 10:20:09 PM »

Okay, first off, I appreciate the input and will correct the errors where possible. It was more than a few years ago when I tried making my own medals, and as a silly high school kid, I used what looked nice instead of being 100% historically accurate (probably 0% in the case of my Japanese ones  :P ). Yes, I know the Order of Victory was only given to a select few top commanders, etc. I wouldn't dream of uploading such things now, which is why I intend to update and finish everything first. For this reason, the screenshots I posted are not a final product, rather they are to give an idea of what the new packs will look like (background, style, etc).

However, like I said originally, I can't change the types of medals awarded (ONLY the images of them). Even when the awards list is changed, DGEN will still use the original award name when it lists what was presented to the pilots in you squad. Nobody has been able to change this.

Also, the screenshot of the US medals was only for the US Navy (the game has the USAAF and USN as two different "nations", and therefore two different sets of medals). I need to make serious corrections for sure but this is the list that I have to use for the USN: 

0 Bronze Star
1 Navy and Marine Corps Medal
2 Distinguished Flying Cross
3 Legion of Merit
4 Silver Star
5 Navy Cross
6 Congressional Medal of Honor

I could change the medal pictures and names to whatever I wanted and the game would still say "John Doe recieved Bronze Star, ...DFC, ...etc. Sorry, can't change that :(

I will post some updated screenshots later  ;)


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JG54Spookie

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Re: New Medals for Soviet. (request for some help)
« Reply #8 on: June 16, 2011, 10:49:35 PM »

I also made new medals for the Netherlands, Finland, France, Germany, Hungary, Japan, the Royal Navy, and the US Navy (as well as started on several other countries).

Very pretty work, but there are some minor errors in your medal packs.

U.S.

1) The Bronze Star was never awarded for aerial actions, the equivalent medal would be the Distinguished Flying Cross.

2) Whether intentional or not, you're mingling USAAF/USA and USN/USMC decorations. Note that after 1947, the USAAF had its own decorations, but during WW2, the USAAF would have used US Army decorations.

3) Each service has its own version of the Medal of Honor. Your pack shows just the USN/USMC version.

4) Many decorations were only instituted in 1942, so a pre-WW2 U.S. medal package would be much different.

5) While it's outside the scope of your medal packs, and is just a limitation of the IL2 game engine, the U.S. didn't have a neat sequential series of medals like the Third Reich did. Instead, each military action was judged on its own merits, with unit commanders making the recommendation for a particular decoration. Lower level decorations could be given by divisional commanders, while the decision to award a higher level decoration was made by corps or army commanders. In many cases, a pilot could get multiple decorations for the same action, as his decorations were "upgraded" after review by progressively senior commanders. In many cases, recognition with the highest level decorations came years, sometimes decades after the fact.

6) Multiple awards of the same decoration were marked with a small bronze oak-leaf cluster attached to the ribbon, in the USA/USAAF, or a small silver star attached to the ribbon for the USMC/USN.

7) By 1944, at least within the USAAF in the ETO/MTO, it was standard procedure to award the Air Medal for each kill or each 25 combat missions. I believe that it was standard practice to award the Distinguished Flying Cross for each successful combat tour (25-100 missions, depending on time period). I can't recall what the procedure was for the USMC, USN or USAAF in the PTO.

8) The award of the Medal of Honor was extremely unusual, and wasn't given to all pilots, even leading aces. Often, it was only awarded after a pilot had died (e.g., Thomas McGuire) or was believed to have died (e.g., Greg Boyington). Also, criteria for the MoH changed over the course of the war. For example, Butch O'Hare got the MoH for shooting down 5 (actually 3) Japanese bombers in 1942. By 1944, a similar feat might just merit a Silver Star or even the DFC. Realistically, a successful fighter pilot might have multiple air medals, a couple of DFC, a Silver Star and possibly the Navy Cross or Distinguished Service Cross.

Japan
1) Some of the decorations you've listed were only given to generals, admirals and senior military officials.

2) The type of decoration awarded depended on the recipients rank. Enlisted men and NCOs got decorations of a lower "grade" than those given to officers. For example, an NCO might be recommended for The Order of the Kite, 7th class, while an officer might get The Order of the Kite, 4th class.

3) Rather than getting a decoration of a different type, a second award might just upgrade an existing decoration to a higher grade, (e.g., Order of the Kite 7th class gets upgraded to Order of the Kite 6th class).

4) During WW2, actual decorations were only given posthumously, sometimes with an automatic posthumous promotion to the next highest rank. Due to rather callous policies by the military authorities, even exceptional pilots never received awards while still alive, even if they were repeatedly recommended for a decoration.

5) In order to try to keep up morale, squadron commanders would publicly recommend exceptional pilots for decorations that everyone knew would never be awarded. while squadron comrades would give gifts to recognize a pilot's prowess, such as a sake cup or a high-quality katana.

6) The exception to the above is that starting in December 1944, divisional commanders could give a decoration called "Bukoushou" to subordinates who showed exceptional valor. This award was often given to pilots flying in defense of the Japanese home islands who shot down one or more B-29s. More information here: http://www.imperialjapanmedalsandbadges.com/militaryservice.html

7) Lots of good information on Japanese decorations here: http://www.imperialjapanmedalsandbadges.com/sitemap.html

UK

1) Like Japan, the UK had one set of decorations for enlisted men and NCOs and another set for officers. This didn't change until 1993.

2) Like the U.S., some decorations varied by service or situation. For example, there was one version of the Conspicuous Gallantry Medal for aerial actions, another for other actions.

3) Like the U.S., it was more common to get a subsequent award of the same decoration rather than a higher ranked medal. Subsequent decorations of the same decoration were marked with a bar.

4) The lowest level British decoration would be "Mention in Dispatches." There is no medal for this award, just a bronze palm leaf.

5) The UK added some decorations during WW2, notably the George Medal. I'm not sure what exact;y what context merited the award of the George Medal vs. the Victoria Cross. Generally, though, military action got the Victoria Cross.

6) It was extremely unusual for a living pilot (actually, just about any pilot) to win the Victoria Cross. Top fighter pilots might have the Distinguished Flying Cross with two bars and the Distinguished Service Cross with bar. (e.g., "Johnny" Johnson). Awards of the Victoria Cross generally went to leaders of extremely successful missions which altered the course of the war (e.g., Guy Gibson for the Dambusters raid) or suicidal acts of bravery.

Third Reich
1) The requirements to earn various grades of Iron Cross increased during the war as leading aces racked up surreal scores over the Eastern Front. Likewise, to accommodate "decoration inflation" Hitler created new levels of Knights Cross of the Iron Cross as the war went on.

2) The Order of the German Cross actually came in 3 levels - silver, gold and gold with diamonds - although functionally there were just two levels of Order of the German Cross - silver and gold - since the gold with diamonds version was never given.

3) The correct order of decorations for 1939 should be Iron Cross, 2nd class; Iron Cross, 1st class; Order of the German Cross in Silver; Order of the German Cross in Gold and Knights Cross of the Iron Cross. In 1940, add the Knights Cross of the Iron Cross with Oak Leaves. In 1941, add the Knights Cross of the Iron Cross with Oak Leaves and Swords and Knights Cross of the Iron Cross with Swords, Oak Leaves and Diamonds. In late 1944, add the Knights Cross of the Iron Cross with Gold Swords, Oak Leaves and Diamonds.

4) In some cases, a pilot's comrades would give him an unofficial award of a silver cup (a "pokal") to commemorate a victory. I believe this was a holdover from Manfred von Richtoften's habit during WWI of commissioning engraved pokals for himself to commemorate his kills. This could serve as the lowest level Nazi award.


I just finished reading your entire post, and thank you for the input. You have a lot of good info that I did not know. Here's my two cents:

US and USN: I didn't know that the Bronze Star wasn't awarded for air kills; good to know. However, I have to use the stock list (this will result in other inaccuracies, I know).

Japan: I never did research their award system, and freely admit that my picks were mostly fantasy. Ditto on the stock lists though...

Germany: I know the awards Jagdwaffe pilots received. It would be nice to have the honor goblet or other non-medal awards, but it just won't work in-game. There are some medal packs out there that have such things, but they don't work properly. :(  As for the Deutsches Kreuz, I know it came in different grades and was only available from late '41 on, but most of the German campaigns don't take place before Barbarossa anyway. As for the diamonds on the DK, yes, that was silly, but my friends and I were the only one who ever saw it since I never shared this stuff with anyone else. :D

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JG54Spookie

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Re: New Medals for Soviet. (request for some help)
« Reply #9 on: June 17, 2011, 01:08:13 AM »

Here's a shot of the new Russian medals pending upload to M4today



I'll post the download links in a new thread once the upload is confirmed at M4today. Other packs will follow over the course of the weekend, and any feedback or corrections will be welcome. Stay tuned...

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Pursuivant

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Re: New Medals for Soviet. (request for some help)
« Reply #10 on: June 18, 2011, 02:19:13 PM »

Once upon a time I did a pack of historically accurate USN and Japanese medals for CFS2. I'll try to find the data and post it.

I'm keenly aware of the limitations on how IL2 recognizes the threshold for awarding decorations and the methods it uses to award them. Please don't take my comments on those subjects as criticisms of the very nice medal packs JG54 Spookie is produing.
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PA_Willy

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Re: New Medals for Soviet. (request for some help)
« Reply #11 on: June 18, 2011, 03:04:51 PM »

Thank you Spookie. They are fantastic!
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